[cavallino]

Yet another mister moneybags to go with the Russian dude joining the sellout Renault team, I am beginning to wonder if any new teams are a good idea?? Maybe just 8 teams, 3 cars each would be better, I mean WRC manage with less teams don't they? I don't see Ferrari or Mclaren or Mercedes or anyone hiring these jokers as their number 3s. Chandhok has been absolutely outclassed by Senna in GP2 and couldn't even keep up with Alvaro Parente. There are probably 10 better GP2 drivers who deserve this more. Hell even Karthikeyan was better. An indication of how good he is is the fact that Mallya hasn't considered picking him despite the endless marketing opportunities of an Indian driver in an Indian team. Wouldn't be much use when they become the laughing stock of F1 - he wouldn't have the credibility the team does now, and the points from last year had they allowed such rich daddy's kids in.

[cavallino]

Hell even Karthikeyan was better, and that's saying something.

[Autumnpuma]

I liked Karthikeyan. He was fast and needed some polishing to be consistent, but he had potential. My understanding of why teams shy away from his is that he was a pr!ck to deal with. Not sure if that's true, but it may be.

EDIT: I'm all for giving anyone a chance at F1. Cowboyashi, on paper, looked like a joke but he did well in a few races. Piquet looked great on paper but turned out to be sh!t. You never can tell.

This post has been edited by Autumnpuma: 04 March 2010 - 09:12 PM

[Quiet One]

Autumnpuma, on 04 March 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:

EDIT: I'm all for giving anyone a chance at F1. Cowboyashi, on paper, looked like a joke but he did well in a few races. Piquet looked great on paper but turned out to be sh!t. You never can tell.

Damn, I arrived too late with exactly the same argument.

[cavallino]

I shall return to this when I am proven right (again)

[The Professor]

I agree with the idea that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt (within reason), because it's hard to predict how successful a driver will be; it's not always the case that good GP2 drivers make good F1 drivers and the opposite is obviously true as well.

Saying that, I'd be surprised if he was even reasonably quick. Lesser teams = lesser drivers.

This post has been edited by Nivola: 04 March 2010 - 09:59 PM

[Autumnpuma]

Nivola, on 04 March 2010 - 09:59 PM, said:

Saying that, I'd be surprised if he was even reasonably quick. Lesser teams = lesser drivers.

There are so many obvious examples of a great driver coming from a lesser team that I probably missed what you were trying to say here.

[Jean Todt]

Autumnpuma, on 04 March 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:

I liked Karthikeyan. He was fast and needed some polishing to be consistent, but he had potential. My understanding of why teams shy away from his is that he was a pr!ck to deal with. Not sure if that's true, but it may be.

EDIT: I'm all for giving anyone a chance at F1. Cowboyashi, on paper, looked like a joke but he did well in a few races. Piquet looked great on paper but turned out to be sh!t. You never can tell.

I was going to agree with Cav straight away, but after reading your post I decided to stay quite about my judgement.....But in anycase, Kobi had a very good starting point, a Toyota...while Karun is going to drive a car that hasn't been yet tested...but something does tell me that his car will be good as they have the help of FIA.

All Karun has to do is to outperform his team mate.....or else....please go back...stop spoiling the name of the country....

Narain on the other hand had some raw pace, all he needed was some polishing to do, poor guy didn't stay for long......bad management I should say....he should have approached some professional managers who had some decent experience in talking to someone in F1......since he didn't do that, as you pointed out...he was indeed a prick to deal with even though some drivers have voiced the concern that he is too nice for F1.

This post has been edited by Jean Todt: 04 March 2010 - 11:54 PM

[The Professor]

Autumnpuma, on 04 March 2010 - 11:05 PM, said:

There are so many obvious examples of a great driver coming from a lesser team that I probably missed what you were trying to say here.

I think the problem lies with the word "lesser", I didn't necessarily mean teams who are towards the back of the grid, but rather teams who don't have sufficient financial backing from non driver related sources.

Obviously every driver has to start somewhere, but my point was when you get non-manufacturer based teams, usually they have less financial backing, as a consequence how much money a driver brings to the team becomes much more important rather than performance considerations. We have already seen this in the 2010 line ups. I think there have been quite a few more examples of mediocre/poor drivers entering the sport (throughout history) via a briefcase of cash in "lesser" teams, than there has been great drivers getting into these "lesser" teams by bringing money in.

Essentially, substitute "poorer" for "lesser" and I probably wouldn't have needed this extra explanatory post.

[Jean Todt]

Nivola, on 05 March 2010 - 12:40 AM, said:

I think the problem lies with the word "lesser", I didn't necessarily mean teams who are towards the back of the grid, but rather teams who don't have sufficient financial backing from non driver related sources.

Obviously every driver has to start somewhere, but my point was when you get non-manufacturer based teams, usually they have less financial backing, as a consequence how much money a driver brings to the team becomes much more important rather than performance considerations. We have already seen this in the 2010 line ups. I think there have been quite a few more examples of mediocre/poor drivers entering the sport (throughout history) via a briefcase of cash in "lesser" teams, than there has been great drivers getting into these "lesser" teams by bringing money in.

Essentially, substitute "poorer" for "lesser" and I probably wouldn't have needed this extra explanatory post.

I agree with you George....

[HandyNZL]

Well his car looks like a real race winner, so there.

[JHS]

So we have Karun and Vitaly. Two okay-ish guys who never accomplished much at all in GP2. Fun.

[maurethegreat2]

Last championship Chandhok won has in 2006 which was the Formula Renault 2.0 Series & that's saying something!

[Quiet One]

In his one and only season in F3000 (now GP2) Alonso didn't score a single point until the 7th race, and only n the last 2 races he got a 2nd place and a victory.
At the time, hiring a SPanish driver in F1 was as common as hiring a martian driver nowadays.

My point is: it's boring to read again and again using GP2 (or any other category per se) accomplishments of each driver as a measure on how good will they perform in F1. Team principals are not stupid. If they choose a guy they have seen something in him. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. And if it is just sponsorship money what they saw, then that means that the guy is exactly for that reason, in which case it is obvious that the guys performance is secondary, so no need to waste space discussing the drivers worth either.

Let the guy race, then bash him.

[The Professor]

Quiet One, on 05 March 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

In his one and only season in F3000 (now GP2) Alonso didn't score a single point until the 7th race, and only n the last 2 races he got a 2nd place and a victory.
At the time, hiring a SPanish driver in F1 was as common as hiring a martian driver nowadays.

My point is: it's boring to read again and again using GP2 (or any other category per se) accomplishments of each driver as a measure on how good will they perform in F1. Team principals are not stupid. If they choose a guy they have seen something in him. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't. And if it is just sponsorship money what they saw, then that means that the guy is exactly for that reason, in which case it is obvious that the guys performance is secondary, so no need to waste space discussing the drivers worth either.

Let the guy race, then bash him.

Yes, but despite results we can usually spot the potential.

Anyway just to clarify, and I know you didn't quote me (and even if you had you'd say you weren't responding to me ), my post was more of an acceptance of the realities of the F1 mini economy rather than a criticism of actual drivers.

[JHS]

mikathegreat2, on 05 March 2010 - 01:42 PM, said:

Last championship Chandhok won has in 2006 which was the Formula Renault 2.0 Series & that's saying something!

Funny thing is, on the GP2 2009 review, there's a clip every two seconds of an Ocean Racing liveried car piloted by Chandok either spinning off or crashing.

[Quiet One]

Nivola, on 05 March 2010 - 04:40 PM, said:

Yes, but despite results we can usually spot the potential.

Anyway just to clarify, and I know you didn't quote me (and even if you had you'd say you weren't responding to me ), my post was more of an acceptance of the realities of the F1 mini economy rather than a criticism of actual drivers.

Yes, I understood what you meant and no, my post wasn't aimed at you, otherwise I would have used the words twat and face, somewhere in my reply.

[Grabthaw the Hammerslayer]

Quiet One, on 05 March 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

Yes, I understood what you meant and no, my post wasn't aimed at you, otherwise I would have used the words twat and face, somewhere in my reply.

No, that's Adam, you got the wrong twat-face

[The Professor]

Quiet One, on 05 March 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

Yes, I understood what you meant and no, my post wasn't aimed at you, otherwise I would have used the words twat and face, somewhere in my reply.

Grabthaw the Hammerslayer, on 05 March 2010 - 04:59 PM, said:

No, that's Adam, you got the wrong twat-face

No no, I am known as 'the b#####d'. Ask Tanita for details.

[Autumnpuma]

JHS, on 05 March 2010 - 08:01 AM, said:

So we have Karun and Vitaly. Two okay-ish guys who never accomplished much at all in GP2. Fun.

On Vitaly: Have you seen him race? I have and while he's not superstar material he's got talent. I eagerly await his debut.

[monza gorilla]

As long as he's not mentored by Al Pease I have no complaint.

[Autumnpuma]

EDIT: Concerning Al Pease, I play a racing sim game called rFactor and it has a late 1960's carset available...I make it a point to drive Al Pease's Eagle..........and there's also a carset with the Monza Gorilla's Alfa..good times.

This post has been edited by Autumnpuma: 05 March 2010 - 07:35 PM

[DOF_power]

cavallino, on 04 March 2010 - 09:07 PM, said:

Yet another mister moneybags to go with the Russian dude joining the sellout Renault team, I am beginning to wonder if any new teams are a good idea?? Maybe just 8 teams, 3 cars each would be better, I mean WRC manage with less teams don't they? I don't see Ferrari or Mclaren or Mercedes or anyone hiring these jokers as their number 3s. Chandhok has been absolutely outclassed by Senna in GP2 and couldn't even keep up with Alvaro Parente. There are probably 10 better GP2 drivers who deserve this more. Hell even Karthikeyan was better. An indication of how good he is is the fact that Mallya hasn't considered picking him despite the endless marketing opportunities of an Indian driver in an Indian team. Wouldn't be much use when they become the laughing stock of F1 - he wouldn't have the credibility the team does now, and the points from last year had they allowed such rich daddy's kids in.

Why is this even surprising ?!
This was always the case when new shaddy teams came to F1.

You either have manufacturer factory teams racing or you have pay driver teams starting and parking or getting lapped then packing up.

This post has been edited by DOF_power: 06 March 2010 - 11:22 AM

[Kopite Girl]

I'm of the opinion like Andres. Let them race. GP2 or any other series is a whole different world to F1. The said driver may take to F1 far better. However, if its plain to see after a race or two that he really shouldn't be there, and is there because sponsorship, race, creed, or any other reason apart from wanting to beat the best, chuck them out.

[maurethegreat2]

Thinking about it, Buemi came to F1 last year finishing 8th or 10th in GP2 in 2008 & went on to do significantly better than Bourdais, heck Kobayashi was around 16th in GP2 last year when he came into F1 & had Button worried so maybe Karen Handchoke might have skill!

[adamstrags]

Quiet One, on 05 March 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

Yes, I understood what you meant and no, my post wasn't aimed at you, otherwise I would have used the words twat and face, somewhere in my reply.

Have you been cheating on me during the off season?
*sobbs, whimpers and climbs into safe place under desk*

Grabthaw the Hammerslayer, on 05 March 2010 - 04:59 PM, said:

No, that's Adam, you got the wrong twat-face

Thank you Grandma the Fannylayer

[Autumnpuma]

After today's practice, I have to admit that Karun is the fastest man without a car.

[cavallino]

Ah he managed to crash out while driving really slowly. I didn't see it, but sounds like he got airborne first, fuinnily enough all other drivers missed the launch pad in the middle of the circuit:

"It was only my fifth lap of the circuit here and I found a bump I didn't know was there before and it launched me off," rued the Indian. "

[JHS]

Not too big a suprise. Poor lad, weekend from hell for him.

[DarkLord]

We should let him race and then pass judgment on his talent or lack of it...