[jackgarrett]

Who would you pick for this year title if you are reading this in 2010?

This post has been edited by jackgarrett: 10 March 2010 - 08:09 AM

[JHS]

I'd go with Alonso. I think the top 6 will be:

1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Schumacher
5. Massa
6. Webber

[adamstrags]

I voted Vettel, but have to admit that I have my doubts after Red Bull put so much into last season.
Hamiltom has a shot at it, but my heart says no.

I'm sticking with my predictions in the prediction thread for now...

1 - Vettel
2 - Hamilton
3 - Schumi
4 - Alonso
5 - Button
6 - Rosberg
7 - Webber
8 - Massa

[Insider]

I've backed JB at long odds again. He's wearing a different head this year and with so many potentially quick cars around, a steady points gatherer like Jens may be in with a shout. He may not be in the best car on the track but it won't frustrate him as much as it will his teamate. Alonso has to be a very strong favourite. He is in the form of his life and in the best car I've seen out there, so far. Seb Vettel is still capable of making errors and the Bulls always have a big question mark in the shape of reliability. Vettel will win a WDC but it won't be in a Bull. Schumi and Rosberg are dangerous and will be in with a shout but there are some quick and boisterous boys in good cars out there, in the shape of Massa, Kubica, Kobayashi, Sutil and Hulkenberg to say nothing of a strong looking STR and they'll be spoiling someone's fun, here and there, believe me. I can't see one driver putting a consistent string of wins together. It'll be a four or five horse race in a scrap to the finish. Bring it on!

Edit: Typo

This post has been edited by Insider: 10 March 2010 - 11:08 AM

[Kopite Girl]

My heart is saying Jens.

My head says Lewis.

I'll stick with Jens, can't not.

1. BUT
2. HAM
3. MSC
4. VET
5. ALO
6. ROS

[BradSpeedMan]

Vettel with Hamilton a close 2nd. Or maybe Hamilton with Vettel a close 2nd. Wait wait..no Vettel with Hamilton a close 2nd. no wait Hamilton with Vettel a close 2nd.


Argh!!!! I can't make up my mind!!!



ok ok, I'll go with Vettel

[maurethegreat2]

Can their be multiple choices??

[The Professor]

My feeling would be Alonso - at least he seems like the "safest" bet for the title. If it isn't him, I'd imagine it'll be Vettel or Hamilton. Followed by Schumacher, Button, Webber and Massa.

It's gonna be fun.

Personally I'd love to see Vettel win it, though.

[Max Mosley]

After a rough couple of years with new people in charge, I wonder if Ferrari signed Alonso to get some consistency in the design office. He knows how Ross Brawn designs cars. Anyways, no doubt the drivers championship will be determined largely by team strengths as usual. The Ferrari will be strong and the McLaren so obviously Lewis and Nando are favourites. I'll be surprised if Red Bull are quite as quick (or as reliable, like Insider points out) over the season. Why am I typing this post? Au revoir, tout le monde.

[Quiet One]

1) Alonso: obvious candidate. If the car is good enough but not the best, he can squeeze that extra edge. If conditions change suddenly, he can adapt. The biggest cocerns are: whether the car is actually where we think it is, and whether he does not repeat his 2007 performance. On that last point, I get the feeling that Massa and Nando have gone from a very cold start to a honestly good relationship (as far as two teammates in a competitive team can be). Their comments on how good both of them are getting along don't seem to be as hollow as the ones ushered by Nando and LH in 2007.

2) Lewis - Schumi - Massa: Lewis, because the car seems to be slightly better than the Ferrari, and Lewis has a "do or die" approach, but he usually stays on the "do" side, and he is maturingly surpringly fast. Schumi, because he can overcome most shortcomings that can be thrown at him, he hasn't lost a single piound of talent in these 3 years, but I fear that the Mercedes might be just way too back to let him grab first place. Massa, because he is out of the box faster than Alonso, and smoother than Lewis. His handicap? Not being as adaptative, but who knows?

3) Button, Vettel: Button can't be better than his car, so he will be tied to whatever Macca can deliver. That won't be enough against the others, I think. He might get the upper hand on Lewis out of sheer consistency, perhaps. Vettel's main problem as pointed out will be reliability, something that would be seriously penalized this year.

4) Webber, Rosberg and (hopefully) Kubica: Webbo and Rosberg, because they are good but so far lacked to show the explosion to walk that extra mile. Kubica...because I so want him and Renault to be up there! Guys at Enstone have grown increasingly bullyish lately...I can only dream...

[AleHop]

I think it will be a tough fight between Ferrari and McLaren. Probably Alonso and Hamilton will be fighting ahead in the last third of the Championship and it will bery important who gets the better car by then. I expect Alonso racing better than ever but I see McLaren doing a better job with the car during the season.

[Autumnpuma]

Hamilton, of course.

[la force supreme des mclaren]

Hamster!

[Jean Todt]

Amen to that Oh Prophet..

[adamstrags]

I'm curious - perhaps those of you who voted Alonso can help me out here.
I think if Ferrari pull a good car out of the bag, Alonso will definately be in with a shout - I rate him as 1 of the top 2 drivers out there, but I'm stuck in my thinking that the Ferrari design team haven't seemed very capable over the last couple of years and that Alonso being the new boy won't make things easy for him.
Perhaps I'm being unfair - Kimi won in 2007 and Massa came close in 2008 and Ferrari did start working on this year's car earlier than all the other teams.
I just can't help thinking that Ferrari are on a down slope at the moment - They seem to work in cycles of 6-10 years where they go from being at the top of their game, to being mediocre and then back again.
I also keep thinking about the pit stop issues they've been having (more than other teams) over the last 2 seasons too. I slightly delayed tyre change in 2010 could hurt them badly.
I see them coming back to form and giving Alonso a realistic shot in 2011.
I don't mind being proved wrong - I hope Ferrari are up there with McLaren, Merc and (hopefully) Red Bull this year.

EDIT
On another note - I don't think Red Bull deserve the 'unreliable' label so much any more - a couple of years ago maybe.
Last season they were pretty damn consistent and had they had the double diffuser from race 1 they would have beaten Brawn and Vettel would have had his fist WDC.
This year's unreliable team will be Virgin. Their cars will be falling apart over the curbs - I applaud their ingenuity and efforts though - they have been very brave - let's see if it pays off.

This post has been edited by adamstrags: 11 March 2010 - 02:56 AM

[Quiet One]

adamstrags, on 11 March 2010 - 02:52 AM, said:

I'm curious - perhaps those of you who voted Alonso can help me out here.
I think if Ferrari pull a good car out of the bag, Alonso will definately be in with a shout - I rate him as 1 of the top 2 drivers out there, but I'm stuck in my thinking that the Ferrari design team haven't seemed very capable over the last couple of years and that Alonso being the new boy won't make things easy for him.
Perhaps I'm being unfair - Kimi won in 2007 and Massa came close in 2008 and Ferrari did start working on this year's car earlier than all the other teams.
I just can't help thinking that Ferrari are on a down slope at the moment - They seem to work in cycles of 6-10 years where they go from being at the top of their game, to being mediocre and then back again.

I agree with you about Ferrari being in some kind of down slope compared to 2004 for example. I am not so fond of cycles, though, but even giving you that they are in the middle of a 6-10 years downslope, regretfully that is obviously not enough to send them back to the place they deserve (midfield to back...). Why? Because those b#####ds from Maranello are so lucky that the moment they started to suck after the Fantastic Four left the team is the moment all the other teams in position to give a serious fight started to decay even faster than Ferrari did.
In short, cyclic theory aside, at least in the tests they seemed very competitive. Of course, that means very little, but being that the only thing we got to make any kind of prediction besides birds' entrails, I think they seeemed good. And good car + Alonso= a WDC is very possible

adamstrags, on 11 March 2010 - 02:52 AM, said:

I also keep thinking about the pit stop issues they've been having (more than other teams) over the last 2 seasons too. I slightly delayed tyre change in 2010 could hurt them badly.
I see them coming back to form and giving Alonso a realistic shot in 2011.
I don't mind being proved wrong - I hope Ferrari are up there with McLaren, Merc and (hopefully) Red Bull this year.

Actually they were the only ones that I've seen working on something different regarding the pitstops with the new design for the tire...thingy. Apparently, they also considered it critical and tried to innovate. That could be the smart thing to do, or their doom (like the pitstop lights). In any case, it will be simple to bring back the old ways so as not to mess more than one race.

adamstrags, on 11 March 2010 - 02:52 AM, said:

EDIT
On another note - I don't think Red Bull deserve the 'unreliable' label so much any more - a couple of years ago maybe.
Last season they were pretty damn consistent and had they had the double diffuser from race 1 they would have beaten Brawn and Vettel would have had his fist WDC.
This year's unreliable team will be Virgin. Their cars will be falling apart over the curbs - I applaud their ingenuity and efforts though - they have been very brave - let's see if it pays off.

Ok...here is something that will create me even more enemies than I already have, but I can't hide this anymore: at least IMHO, RBR's unreliability comes not only from the car, or the Renault engine (which was actually the most reliable of them all in the end of past season after leaving them with just one engine for...what? 4 races in a row?)...I also think that Vettel is unreliable. There I said it. Let the stoning begin. The kid is fast, very mature and blah blah, but last years was nowhere as close to be consistent enough to become a serious WDC. And I mean mistakes only atrributable to his driving skills, not about the car itself. Maybe this year he matures enough, we will see.

Still, in front he has Alonso, Schumi, Lewis, Massa...he won't have it easy. This year he will have a chance to prove just how good he is. Everybody will, once the car performance is factored in.

[jackgarrett]

mikathegreat2, on 10 March 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

Can their be multiple choices??

i dont think so for the poll. But you can post multiple choices.

[adamstrags]

ah - it's good to be back...

Quiet One, on 11 March 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

Of course, that means very little, but being that the only thing we got to make any kind of prediction besides birds' entrails...

What's wrong with tea leaves, runes, ouija boards, numerology and good old reliable tarot cards? Trust you to go all experimental.

Quiet One, on 11 March 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

Actually they were the only ones that I've seen working on something different regarding the pitstops with the new design for the tire...thingy.

I read this and immediately thought 'pit stop lights fisco!'

Quiet One, on 11 March 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

That could be the smart thing to do, or their doom (like the pitstop lights).

And so did you aparently.

Quiet One, on 11 March 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

Ok...here is something that will create me even more enemies than I already have, but I can't hide this anymore: at least IMHO, RBR's unreliability comes not only from the car, or the Renault engine (which was actually the most reliable of them all in the end of past season after leaving them with just one engine for...what? 4 races in a row?)...I also think that Vettel is unreliable. There I said it. Let the stoning begin. The kid is fast, very mature and blah blah, but last years was nowhere as close to be consistent enough to become a serious WDC. And I mean mistakes only atrributable to his driving skills, not about the car itself. Maybe this year he matures enough, we will see.

Still, in front he has Alonso, Schumi, Lewis, Massa...he won't have it easy. This year he will have a chance to prove just how good he is. Everybody will, once the car performance is factored in.

Hold tight - I'm interested on the stats for this one...

[adamstrags]

Righty...

From 3 DNFs last season only 1 was due to Vettel's mistake:

Monaco - Vettel's fault (slid into barriers)
Hungary - Suspension failure
European - Engine failure

I'm right - you're wrong.

BUT

From the 2 non-points finishes, both were his fault:

Australia (13th) - Crashed into Kubi - silly boy
Malaysia (15th) - Spin in the downpour but he only started from 13th due to his Aussie crash and subsequent 10 place penalty

You're right, I'm wrong.

In comparison to other drivers - I'd agree that he's possibly more accident prone than a few out there, but going on last years info - not too much. A lot of drivers on the grid slip up more than him.
Also - he had 3 poles last year and won all of them. That shows that when he's got the car for qually - he can deliver on race day.

In fairness I think there's an argument here for both of us, so let's just agree that my Sh#t smells of roses and yours doesn't.

EDIT - yay - more stats
Talking about Red Bull concerns reliability - here's how the teams stacked up for number of DNFs over last season...
Brawn - 2
Ferrari - 4
Toyota - 4
Red Bull - 5
BMW - 5
Williams - 5
Force India - 6
Renault - 7
McLaren - 7
Toro Rosso - 13
To me Red Bull & their drivers as a team weren't so unreliable last year.
This doesn't give the full story, but still, they had 22 points finishes out of a possible 34 - second only to Brawn obviously.
Newey has the reputation for designing fast but delicate cars - we'll see what he comes up with this year.

This post has been edited by adamstrags: 11 March 2010 - 07:06 AM

[Insider]

Autumnpuma, on 10 March 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

Hamilton, of course.

Why 'of course'?

[adamstrags]

Insider, on 11 March 2010 - 06:54 AM, said:

Why 'of course'?

Because any vote where driver names are listed is automatically titled 'Choose your favourite' in the eyes of countless forum members.
AutumnPuma is not alone in this - come on, we've seen enough DOD votes to know that.

[Max Mosley]

Quiet One, on 11 March 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

Ok...here is something that will create me even more enemies than I already have, but I can't hide this anymore: at least IMHO, RBR's unreliability comes not only from the car, or the Renault engine (which was actually the most reliable of them all in the end of past season after leaving them with just one engine for...what? 4 races in a row?)...I also think that Vettel is unreliable. There I said it. Let the stoning begin. The kid is fast, very mature and blah blah, but last years was nowhere as close to be consistent enough to become a serious WDC. And I mean mistakes only atrributable to his driving skills, not about the car itself. Maybe this year he matures enough, we will see.

I always smile when you're trying to be diplomatic, which is most of the time! Anyways I agree - he makes a lot of mistakes, and wasn't always that much faster than Webber. Probably his mistake rate will come down in the next few years but I still think he is or was over-hyped.

Quiet One, on 11 March 2010 - 03:43 AM, said:

Still, in front he has Alonso, Schumi, Lewis, Massa...he won't have it easy. This year he will have a chance to prove just how good he is. Everybody will, once the car performance is factored in.

Yes, so in fact nobody will because we won't know the relative performance of the cars!

adamstrags, on 11 March 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

In comparison to other drivers - I'd agree that he's possibly more accident prone than a few out there, but going on last years info - not too much. A lot of drivers on the grid slip up more than him.

Yeah. I was hoping we could have a debate about it. Too bad everyone agrees Vettel is the worst driver out there since Takuma Sato had an off day.

This post has been edited by Max Mosley: 11 March 2010 - 10:17 AM

[aussief1]

Lewis is my bet to take the Championship in 2010. Wanna know why I think this way:

- He is a settled man at McLaren
- The car has been designed with him in mind
- The maturity even further beyond his 3 years
- McLaren have the extra motivation (not that its was ever needed) to beat MGP
- Learning off Jenson especially in the early races (Jenson will be supreme with tyre management)
- Will grow even more now having the opportunity to show Michael what he has first hand
- Calm team environment with a great team mate a World Champion team mate.
- No PCD girlfriend and clearer relationship with his father
- THE GUY IS AWESOME its simple!!!

But as everyone is saying this is shaping up to be the closest Championhip ever. So lets enjoy whatever season 2010 throws at us, if seasons past are anything to go by buckle up it's going to be a hell of a year!!!

[maurethegreat2]

jackgarrett, on 11 March 2010 - 05:19 AM, said:

i dont think so for the poll. But you can post multiple choices.

OK in no particular order:

Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Schumacher
Button
Massa

[aussief1]

mikathegreat2, on 11 March 2010 - 10:37 AM, said:

OK in no particular order:

Alonso
Vettel
Hamilton
Schumacher
Button
Massa

[BradSpeedMan]

aussief1, on 11 March 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

- No PCD girlfriend and clearer relationship with his father

apparently they've reunited. But I guess your other points sticks

[aussief1]

BradSpeedMan, on 11 March 2010 - 10:53 AM, said:

apparently they've reunited. But I guess your other points sticks

Hmmm..... I'll leave that to the gossip mags, but I must say Brad I'm not sure if I'm impressed with this tabloid knowledge you have or seriously worried for you mate!!!!

This post has been edited by aussief1: 11 March 2010 - 11:03 AM

[adamstrags]

Max Mosley, on 11 March 2010 - 10:16 AM, said:

Too bad everyone agrees Vettel is the worst driver out there since Takuma Sato had an off day.

Hey! Sato was brilliant on his days off. It was just when he was driving that things went pear-shaped.


EDIT.....
oh

This post has been edited by adamstrags: 11 March 2010 - 11:07 AM

[Quiet One]

adamstrags, on 11 March 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

Righty...

From 3 DNFs last season only 1 was due to Vettel's mistake:

Monaco - Vettel's fault (slid into barriers)
Hungary - Suspension failure
European - Engine failure

I'm right - you're wrong.

BUT

From the 2 non-points finishes, both were his fault:

Australia (13th) - Crashed into Kubi - silly boy
Malaysia (15th) - Spin in the downpour but he only started from 13th due to his Aussie crash and subsequent 10 place penalty

You're right, I'm wrong.

In comparison to other drivers - I'd agree that he's possibly more accident prone than a few out there, but going on last years info - not too much. A lot of drivers on the grid slip up more than him.
Also - he had 3 poles last year and won all of them. That shows that when he's got the car for qually - he can deliver on race day.

In fairness I think there's an argument here for both of us, so let's just agree that my Sh#t smells of roses and yours doesn't.

EDIT - yay - more stats
Talking about Red Bull concerns reliability - here's how the teams stacked up for number of DNFs over last season...
Brawn - 2
Ferrari - 4
Toyota - 4
Red Bull - 5
BMW - 5
Williams - 5
Force India - 6
Renault - 7
McLaren - 7
Toro Rosso - 13
To me Red Bull & their drivers as a team weren't so unreliable last year.
This doesn't give the full story, but still, they had 22 points finishes out of a possible 34 - second only to Brawn obviously.
Newey has the reputation for designing fast but delicate cars - we'll see what he comes up with this year.

Rubbish. You failed to provide a single proof.
( Missed me?)

[Quiet One]

Max Mosley, on 11 March 2010 - 10:16 AM, said:

I always smile when you're trying to be diplomatic, which is most of the time! Anyways I agree - he makes a lot of mistakes, and wasn't always that much faster than Webber. Probably his mistake rate will come down in the next few years but I still think he is or was over-hyped.

That wasn't me trying to be diplomatic. That was me trying to explain that the kid is not the best racer out there from what he have shown so far, whithout having a bunch of idiots outraged because they would think that I meant that he is a crap driver then. Is hard to explain the concept of "gray" for people who think in blacks and whites

As about Vettel himself, I agree his mistake rate will go down, and yes, he was overhyped (I remember the articles after Monza and the fact that ever since the kid showed up all the journos asking whether he is the new Schumi or not...geez...). But it is also true that no matter how you look at him, his skills are impressive, no numbers to back this up, but I was never good with numbers All I know is that some drivers strike you as exceptional and usually that feeling is much better guide than numbers. In that sense, there is "something" about the kid that really says he is exceptional. I just think that this year his problem will be the overpopulation of exceptional drivers in competitive cars *crosses fingers*

Max Mosley, on 11 March 2010 - 10:16 AM, said:

Yes, so in fact nobody will because we won't know the relative performance of the cars!

I thought exactly that as soon as I finished that sentence. No matter who ends up being WDC, we will always have somebody saying that "well, driver X could have won but the car just wasn't up to it". In fact, I have already written and saved a post like that about Alonso/Kubica on my computer just in case to save me some typing at the end of the season Again, I think that once the heated post season debat has gone, we will be able to look back and just enjoy the performances that I am sure the guys this year will give. There can be just one WDC, but you can have multiple great performers.

Max Mosley, on 11 March 2010 - 10:16 AM, said:

Yeah. I was hoping we could have a debate about it. Too bad everyone agrees Vettel is the worst driver out there since Takuma Sato had an off day.

Q.E.D.