[Pato]

After seeing the new Mazda 3, I think this has to take the prize for the ugliest car ever.



Even uglier than the Fiat Multipla imo.

[Nivola]

That is pretty darn ugly.

[Oli]

By far and away my least favourite is the Pontiac Aztek. Most ugly cars manage to have a personality as a result (e.g. Multipla, AMC Pacer, and so on) but this is just horrible and characterless at the same time. A real design treat.

[mikathegreat2]

BMW X6 by far!

[Jean Todt]

Some of the Peugeots look even uglier,

The Mazda without that scoop in the bonnet would have looked far better, but not good enough to make it look the best. Fiat Bravo is the best looking car in its class.

[Jean Todt]

Oli, on Feb 7 2009, 12:13 AM, said:

By far and away my least favourite is the Pontiac Aztek. Most ugly cars manage to have a personality as a result (e.g. Multipla, AMC Pacer, and so on) but this is just horrible and characterless at the same time. A real design treat.

The designer of this car should not be the one to be blamed, its the guys who approved this joke who should be shot dead!

[dribbler]

I don't mind that Mazda atall, I think that there are far uglier cars in current production. And sorry, Shaliq, but I love the bonnet scoop. Just think how ordinary it would look without it. In fact don't think, just look at the lesser 3's that don't have it. It shares many design cues with the Peugeot 307 in terms of shape and the shoulder line is pure Volvo (funny that, they are part of the same group..) Some aspects of the Pontiac's design are unusual and a bit heavy handed but atleast it is coherent and distinctive.

Ssangyong Musso anyone?

This post has been edited by dribbler: 07 February 2009 - 06:20 AM

[The Rumble Strip]

Ouch to the Aztek.

[HandyNZL]

Oli, on Feb 7 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

By far and away my least favourite is the Pontiac Aztek. Most ugly cars manage to have a personality as a result (e.g. Multipla, AMC Pacer, and so on) but this is just horrible and characterless at the same time. A real design treat.

No bloody wonder the US car makers can't sell cars...that thing looks like a turd i flushed the other day!


But the Mazda3 looks good. I like it.

[Jean Todt]

dribbler, on Feb 7 2009, 07:16 AM, said:

I don't mind that Mazda atall, I think that there are far uglier cars in current production. And sorry, Shaliq, but I love the bonnet scoop. Just think how ordinary it would look without it. In fact don't think, just look at the lesser 3's that don't have it. It shares many design cues with the Peugeot 307 in terms of shape and the shoulder line is pure Volvo (funny that, they are part of the same group..) Some aspects of the Pontiac's design are unusual and a bit heavy handed but atleast it is coherent and distinctive.

Ssangyong Musso anyone?

I am starting to like Mazda....but..
look at this! http://www.micoche.c...yong_Rodius.jpg
http://www.arpem.com...-actyon-lat.jpg

Steve, You cannot like that Pontiac!

Mazda is only partly owned by Ford, but they have a great wall of China built between them, and they have no direct communications. The have another party to exchange the communications and Ford does not interefere and vice versa. Its a wierd relationship, but Mazda seems to be doing quite ok. Ask me how I know all these! , well I have an insider too! Yeah, and Volvo is up for sale! Anyone interested?

[dribbler]

abbas_gear, on Feb 7 2009, 03:01 PM, said:

I am starting to like Mazda....but..
look at this! http://www.micoche.c...yong_Rodius.jpg
http://www.arpem.com...-actyon-lat.jpg

Steve, You cannot like that Pontiac!

Mazda is only partly owned by Ford, but they have a great wall of China built between them, and they have no direct communications. The have another party to exchange the communications and Ford does not interefere and vice versa. Its a wierd relationship, but Mazda seems to be doing quite ok. Ask me how I know all these! , well I have an insider too! Yeah, and Volvo is up for sale! Anyone interested?

Like the Pontiac? I wouldn't go that far, but I stick to my original point. I thought the relationship between Ford and Mazda was quite common knowledge, or maybe I drink with the same insider as you!

Volvo? I think that will go the way of the Chinese.

[mikathegreat2]

abbas_gear, on Feb 6 2009, 11:53 PM, said:

Some of the Peugeots look even uglier,

The Mazda without that scoop in the bonnet would have looked far better, but not good enough to make it look the best. Fiat Bravo is the best looking car in its class.

Don't like the look of the new RX8 R3 speical edition!

[Jean Todt]

dribbler, on Feb 7 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

Like the Pontiac? I wouldn't go that far, but I stick to my original point. I thought the relationship between Ford and Mazda was quite common knowledge, or maybe I drink with the same insider as you!

Volvo? I think that will go the way of the Chinese.

They may share some technical know how, but not styling etc, as Mazda has its own desigin studios and designers.

No Steve, its not him. This guy is more conservative.

I hope Ford sticks with Volvo as I think, Volvo now has more freedom to compete with the premium brands such as BMW, Merc and Audi, because they now don't have to Fear competing with Jaguars and Landrovers anymore.

This post has been edited by abbas_gear: 07 February 2009 - 03:56 PM

[Jean Todt]

mikathegreat2, on Feb 7 2009, 04:38 PM, said:

Don't like the look of the new RX8 R3 speical edition!

Mazdas look the best when they are in concept forms.

At present I think Mazda 2 and 6 are the most widely accepted Mazdas.

This post has been edited by abbas_gear: 07 February 2009 - 04:00 PM

[dribbler]

abbas_gear, on Feb 7 2009, 03:51 PM, said:

I hope Ford sticks with Volvo as I think, Volvo now has more freedom to compete with the premium brands such as BMW, Merc and Audi, because they now don't have to Fear competing with Jaguars and Landrovers anymore.

That's a good point, but I fear that Volvo have a long way to go in terms of brand perception to be on equal terms with the big three Germans. They need to continue their design revolution and allow Ford know how, started by Parry Jones, to transform the dynamics of the cars. Audi has demonstrated that they can take on Munich and Stuttgart, even though they too have wrong wheel drive.

Ford, though, is in no position financially to commit the sort of outlay needed to bring Volvo up.

[Jean Todt]

dribbler, on Feb 7 2009, 10:02 PM, said:

That's a good point, but I fear that Volvo have a long way to go in terms of brand perception to be on equal terms with the big three Germans. They need to continue their design revolution and allow Ford know how, started by Parry Jones, to transform the dynamics of the cars. Audi has demonstrated that they can take on Munich and Stuttgart, even though they too have wrong wheel drive.

Ford, though, is in no position financially to commit the sort of outlay needed to bring Volvo up.

Desperate time like this is the best chance to turn around, if they care. All they need is a leader like Carlos Ghosn, someone like him will have to concentrate one brand at a time to make it successful. I like Volvos's new design language, it looks much better than Mercedes benz at present. I liked the S60 concept.
http://www.worldcarf....vo-s60-concept.. All they now need is to make sure they drive well, and not just crash, because everyone makes safer cars, so by saying their cars are the safest alone wont sell. Most of the customers these days only look for performance, economy or Image.

I agree with what you said about Audi's wrong wheel drive system, at the same time most of the people who buy them don't notice the difference and marketing wise they are clever actually,.They market their car by showing their superior All Wheel drive system which the other two companies don't have and sell their inferior wrong wheel drive system for a cheaper price.

Getting back to Volvo....
Now that they dont look like hearse anymore, they can attract younger customers, all they need now is to figure out their performance side. Ford does have enough powertrains under its belt. They can very well use some of the V10s and V8s to power future volvos to compete against BMWs M5s and M3s. Hell they have everything, they just need a good direction. If Volvo is sold, Ford has missed its golden chance and under anyother hands, Volvo will only sink deeper.

This post has been edited by abbas_gear: 08 February 2009 - 02:04 AM

[Argento Reloaded]

The aztek is the pinnacle of bad taste! The Clio II 4 doors -just replaced by the symbol and only sold in Turkey and South America- is a strong contender. Mercedes Viano is very good example of how to make a square box even more square... and many more I´ve luckyly forgotten!

[dribbler]

abbas_gear, on Feb 8 2009, 01:59 AM, said:

Desperate time like this is the best chance to turn around, if they care. All they need is a leader like Carlos Ghosn, someone like him will have to concentrate one brand at a time to make it successful. I like Volvos's new design language, it looks much better than Mercedes benz at present. I liked the S60 concept.
http://www.worldcarf....vo-s60-concept.. All they now need is to make sure they drive well, and not just crash, because everyone makes safer cars, so by saying their cars are the safest alone wont sell. Most of the customers these days only look for performance, economy or Image.

I agree with what you said about Audi's wrong wheel drive system, at the same time most of the people who buy them don't notice the difference and marketing wise they are clever actually,.They market their car by showing their superior All Wheel drive system which the other two companies don't have and sell their inferior wrong wheel drive system for a cheaper price.

Getting back to Volvo....
Now that they dont look like hearse anymore, they can attract younger customers, all they need now is to figure out their performance side. Ford does have enough powertrains under its belt. They can very well use some of the V10s and V8s to power future volvos to compete against BMWs M5s and M3s. Hell they have everything, they just need a good direction. If Volvo is sold, Ford has missed its golden chance and under anyother hands, Volvo will only sink deeper.

Design seems to have little to do with brand desire. Look at all the hump backed whale Banglism's and flame surfaced abortions. The reason BM's still flew out of show rooms is because rear wheel drive has a massive following amongst the people who drive BMW's. The perception is that it represents a drivers car. Not all of BMW's customers will feel the difference on the road but it doesn't matter, perception is everything.

As manufacturers raise their game in terms of shut lines, cabin design, NVH, and overall quality, it is becoming more critical than ever to create brand desire over the competition. Who would have thought that a current gneration Mondeo cabin would be the equal of a BMW a few years ago? Increasingly, one of the only thing left that the 'quality' brands have over the lesser brands is image. It takes a very long time to change image perception. Volvo don't have that long.

Ford may have the expertise and may be in a better position than some to put resource behind Volvo but raiding the parts bin and using Ford derived engines is not the answer. It works at the weight they are currently punching because the hardware is very good, but it needs to be bespoke to convince its customer base that it is as good as the Germans. Look at what happened when Jaguar launched the X-Type. They used Mondeo floorpans and drivetrains. In the process they insulted their core audience.

[Jean Todt]

dribbler, on Feb 8 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Design seems to have little to do with brand desire. Look at all the hump backed whale Banglism's and flame surfaced abortions. The reason BM's still flew out of show rooms is because rear wheel drive has a massive following amongst the people who drive BMW's. The perception is that it represents a drivers car. Not all of BMW's customers will feel the difference on the road but it doesn't matter, perception is everything.

As manufacturers raise their game in terms of shut lines, cabin design, NVH, and overall quality, it is becoming more critical than ever to create brand desire over the competition. Who would have thought that a current gneration Mondeo cabin would be the equal of a BMW a few years ago? Increasingly, one of the only thing left that the 'quality' brands have over the lesser brands is image. It takes a very long time to change image perception. Volvo don't have that long.

Ford may have the expertise and may be in a better position than some to put resource behind Volvo but raiding the parts bin and using Ford derived engines is not the answer. It works at the weight they are currently punching because the hardware is very good, but it needs to be bespoke to convince its customer base that it is as good as the Germans. Look at what happened when Jaguar launched the X-Type. They used Mondeo floorpans and drivetrains. In the process they insulted their core audience.

I agree with you, especially with that Jaguar part.

But X-type did have a four wheel drive option, right?

[dribbler]

abbas_gear, on Feb 8 2009, 09:12 PM, said:

But X-type did have a four wheel drive option, right?

It was launched with four wheel drive to disguise the roots of its front wheel drive platform. Flagging sales forced Jaguar into another masterstroke; launch a budget model with a 2 litre four pot and front wheel drive.

[Jean Todt]

dribbler, on Feb 9 2009, 06:24 PM, said:

It was launched with four wheel drive to disguise the roots of its front wheel drive platform. Flagging sales forced Jaguar into another masterstroke; launch a budget model with a 2 litre four pot and front wheel drive.

I heard the new XF is very good and really Jaguarish, despite refreshing looks. I hope they are back in form soon, before they are forgotten completely.

[mikathegreat2]

abbas_gear, on Feb 9 2009, 07:20 PM, said:

I heard the new XF is very good and really Jaguarish, despite refreshing looks. I hope they are back in form soon, before they are forgotten completely.

It hit 225mph at Bonneville!

[Argento Reloaded]

http://www.carbodyde...-coupe-concept/

Speaking of rudeness and coarseness...

[Jean Todt]

Argento, on Feb 11 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

http://www.carbodyde...-coupe-concept/

Speaking of rudeness and coarseness...

I cant belive a car from Turin during these times could be this ugly.

They have tried their best to make Maybach Exelero look even uglier! And boy they have succeeded!

[Argento Reloaded]

abbas_gear, on Feb 11 2009, 11:20 AM, said:

I cant belive a car from Turin during these times could be this ugly.

They have tried their best to make Maybach Exelero look even uglier! And boy they have succeeded!

[mikathegreat2]

Looks like it was designed by a drunk stoner who Stola Glanza! Get it??

[The Rumble Strip]

It may look better in red or black perhaps.

[mikathegreat2]

Team Formula One, on Feb 11 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

It may look better in red or black perhaps.

Or maybe in the scrapyard!

[monza gorilla]

dribbler, on Feb 9 2009, 05:24 PM, said:

It was launched with four wheel drive to disguise the roots of its front wheel drive platform. Flagging sales forced Jaguar into another masterstroke; launch a budget model with a 2 litre four pot and front wheel drive.

Didn't think any of them were four pots. Even the 2 litre was a six.

[dribbler]

monza gorilla, on Feb 13 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Didn't think any of them were four pots. Even the 2 litre was a six.

Quite right, my mistake.